ANJ is literally just touting conspiracy theories that make the allies look bad and the axis look not so bad.
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you start off by saying something true but then start talking bs. the first is a fact. japan did indeed get nuked. but then you go on to say that it is a “fact” that US high command did not want this or that. how do you know what they wanted? just because it ended up being different from what they might have wanted you just assume peoples’ thought and claim that they are righteous just because you think you know what they thought. and then you go and try to use it as a point to try to prove you are correct. know the difference between a fact and an opinion.
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Because its a documented fact. Almost the entire high command is on record stating how bad of an idea it would to invade Japan. It isnt assuming anything if its recorded and documented. You can litearlly go to the national archive and read all of the individual statements from the commanders in-charge of planning the invasion.
How much more of a fact can it be than coming from the mouths of the US commanders?
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The system flagged the link, i can PM it to you if you really want to read about unit 731.
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i hope one day you realize that not every word that comes out of someone’s mouth is what they truly believe. the american people considered the soldiers and government heroes after ww2 but idk if it would be the same if japan was invaded
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You’ve gone on about how we are the ones who are trying to state revisionist history while your taking the word of POLITICIANS at 100% face value.
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Im not talking about politicians, because they have literally nothing to do with invasion planning. Im talking about colonels, Generals, Sergeants, captains, Admirals and Warrent officers. All the military records on the invasion plans are public information and can be requested for study. All of the individual recommendations can be seen.
And Kaen, you are 100% correct. If Japan had been invaded, more than likely the country would be a wasteland and America would have been guilty of exterminating an extremely cultured and wonderful society off the face of the planet. Thankfully we didnt invade.
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and we wouldn’t have anime and hentai. the whole world would have been much better off. trash with anime profile pictures wouldn’t exist.
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so you are admitting that the higher ups in the US military didnt have a choice. they had to choose a method that didn’t involve an invasion no matter how much they wanted it. and they cant just come out and say that they wanted to exterminate a group of people but the people wouldnt like that so they went for the second best thing. exterminate a percentage of said group of people. preferably innocents. because killing military just isnt as satisfying for them.
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Kaen I highly doubt Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed for sadistic purposes
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Lmao, literally arguing both sides. A wonderfully cultured society of pure evil, according to your own words 
Fucking clown
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@Seth While you give the impression that you are knowledgeable at the same time you contradict yourself with your arguements. Also imo you kind of redirect the conversation everytime to make your point stand.
Btw i didnt see anyone saying that Axis was good. They are argue that allies werent as pure and good as you are saying they were. Obviously they arent talking about the majority of the infantry. Also as far as i understand they are questioning some of the desicions that were taken by the ally forces.
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Its almost as if nations and cultures change over time and the sons are not guilty of the sins of the father.
@Crusnik Where have I contradicted myself?
Also, trying to say that the allies also did bad things during WW2 when talking about the horrors of the axis is a misdirection. Nothing the allies did even comes close to the things Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan did. Its the same when people try and point out the US governments treatment of Native Americans. As if the genocide of the Natives 100 years earlier negates the moral values of WW2 veterans.
I’ll say it again. The sons are not guilty of the sins of the father. An earlier sin does not negate a future good. The western powers putting an end to Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany was an absolute good. None of the killings and colonialism before WW2 and none of the actions after WW2 negate the war being an absolute good. What ANJ and Sakrie are trying to argue is that you cant call the western powers the good guys cause they did bad things too, which is such a dangerous line of thinking.
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Sakrie and ANJ can speak on their own.
Without quoting ( i think you will understand the 2 points i mean ) at start you said several times that you dont talk about politicians or commanders and you speak of the regular troops ( the good ones ) , at other point you exclude again politicians and make it clear that the desicions taken by the commanders ( again you argue at that certain point ).
First of all is chain of command , you cant separate it. So when a politician will give an order ( the commander eg Colonel ) has to obey and when the said commander give an order to troops they have to obey. Army isnt democracy so we cant argue about it as a stand alone incident (eg. Troopers were good souls , politicians arent - we can add a scale of 1 to 10 to describe the levels but we have to view it as one ).
Like i said before what Axis did more or less all we know right? So you should stop comparing and get Axis in the discussion. I believe that line is as dangerous as the one you describe from ANJ or Sakrie ( if thats their arguement ). More or less you are saying again and again you accept the lesser evil which is wrong as we arent in war times.
About war veterans thats another hard discussion. Not all of them have moral values , but the most important is they are tend to be forgotten by their nations.
When we want to discuss history we should try to discuss it from a grey stand point of view so we have a better judgement. Thats my opinion at least.
Generally i believe discussing war times is hard. A lot of actions that seem terrible when we are at peace could be justified when we are at war.
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Which is it? Mr. “I don’t actually know how to debate anything”. Have you once even tried to cite a source for a single one of your claims?
You are just spouting random shit to try to prove whatever thought is in your head at that moment. You can’t even remember what you are writing.
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So i would like to correct you on the chain of command. Politicians dont actually give orders to military commanders. Military commanders provide battle plans for both long term and short term operations so politicians can decide which direction they want to go in. They dont actually do any of the planning.
The US military is 100% a democracy at the highest levels. Commanders evaluate ability and capacity and agree on a course of action. Civilian insight is not included in planning military operations, it only approves or denies them.
I think war is an easy topic that people simply are not educated on unless involved in them. And even then, most members of the military dont care enough to be educated on the subject. Their is also alot of misinformation from media and “war stories”.
Also, the entire topic was started because people were trying to say that Axis weren’t that evil or that the allies were just as evil. Thats why the post was created, to dis-spell that nonsense. There were literally broadcast on CE where people were saying the axis weren’t that bad.
The time i did cite a source, it got taken down. As was pointed out to me, there are children on this forum and it isnt appropriate to post links that a minor could follow to nightmare inducing articles about the horrors of WW2.
So how about instead of arguing on a topic you clearly lack knowledge on, you move on to something you are educated about?
Japan as a nation right now in todays world is a beautiful country with alot of culture and history. The nation has grown and changed more than almost any other nation in history that I can think of. That being said, I would be more than happy to PM you links about Japans recent denial of Nanjing if you so desire. I wont post them in chat because the information is really disgusting and underage individuals should not see such information without parental consent.
There are actions that politicians order military commanders to do and the commanders then choose the best course of action. Isnt always the way you describe it to be.
Politicians are the upper echelon that will dictate how things will unfold. Also i have to disagree with your description , maybe at the highest level they discuss planning as a democracy but when an order is set out isnt up to debate if its right or wrong. You have to follow that order.
I didnt take part in the initial arguement as i didnt see a reason to take part. The discussion evolved from its starting point and there comes my comment to dont compare the two sides aside of what points you want to make ( you or whoever else ).
I dont think war is an easy topic , i find it hard as its complicated and not stand alone. I believe its normal for a human being to dont be able to understand war.
P.s. Certain actions lead to other actions - the comment you made about Hussein , i have to disagree. You cant take out of the equation what led to Hussein be a dominant figure. Generally i totally disagree with your logic that politicians are a separate subject , commanders are a separate subject , troopers are a separate subject.
Can you actually make a comment without contradicting your own logic, or is this some elaborate troll?
@Sakrie What are you on about? What on earth does war being black and white have to do with Japan, a rich and cultured nation denying a war crime from 100 years ago? Dude, if your gonna try and call me out for being contradictory, atleast pick post that relate to each other. Big yikes.
@Crusnik Thats just misinformation and I dont blame you for it. Politicians do not see strategic planning until after the plans are done. Our system is designed that way intentionally. It keeps civilian incompetence out of military action while still allowing oversight.
As for following orders, I have told commanders 10 ranks above me no, it happens fairly often. We are not mindless drones who follow every order like a pixel in a RTS. If my commander gives me a bad or dumb order, im gonna, respectfully, tell him no and explain why it cant or shouldn’t be done. If a commander tries to push the issue, my oath to the US military specifically states I am required to follow lawful orders only.
As for Hussein, reasons dont matter. He murdered thousands and attempted genocide against the Kurds. It doesnt matter what horrible events led him to that action, there is no excuse for genocide.