Extention of CE ( 4000+ ticks )

[Moe]

I’m just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

@Malicewolf

You’ll see teams constantly throwing the ball out of bounds, passing back and forth and running down the clock.

This part of basketball, and any other sport for that matter is something I hate. Yes, I understand it’s a part of the game, but which sounds more exciting, a triple buzzer beater for the championship or one team jumped ahead 20 points and then runs down the clock before the other team catches up?

Sure, it wouldn’t be fair to the team 20 points ahead if you suddenly added 5 more minutes to the clock, but what if it was the final basketball game being played? Also, what if it was being asked before that team ever got that 20 point lead, because there is still over 1/4 of the era remaining.

As for

@Malicewolf

Us changing ANY rules mid era = admins no longer reliable.

I won’t try to catch you on “ANY” rules because I assume you would easily change them based on a new bug found or something similar, but this really rubbed me the wrong way. I keep thinking back to when SHIP was fighting AT and suddenly all our destinations got turned to camps a tick AFTER we launched. I know it’s not quite the same as changing a rule, but it was a decision made after players had already acted, biased towards one side. We had planned a lot based on being able to push forward then and there, several people that were hard to get online were then unable to make the next launch, iirc. To their credit we got back a bit of oil for our troubles, but there is no way to quantify that lost time. At that point are the admins already not reliable?

This is a unique era with unique circumstances, so I don’t understand why making an exception would make admins unreliable. If anything I would argue an admin who can’t change based on the circumstances was more unreliable. So the real problem should be if there is a valid reason for extending the era. That is a decision I think relies on both on community input (to know what type of basketball they want to watch, so to speak) and also management input (is it even possible with the current code/time constraints due to BD2, etc.)

I don’t really know what point I’m trying to make anymore, but I still hope a tick extension (and reduction for the same reason, maybe everyone dies) will be considered so the final championship era ends with battle reports of thousands of units clashing and not XYZ outpost has been taken.

[Psi]

I think we should close the topic, add a poll and leave Moe’s argument as the proposal of extending and leave ppl decide what they want.

Very well said @Moe. @ourania you should learn how to use the “brain” and write things that makes sense as this man did.

[manuharsh]

I strongly disagree. This is not one of those grey zones where a clear cut decision cant be taken, it was clear from the start, if people failed to work out their strategies then shame on them. Why must the winner pay the price for playing by the rules???

Why should community decide who should win and who shouldn’t? It should be merit and merit alone.

[Moe]

Because a winner hasn’t been decided. Should this have been asked earlier? Yes, 100%, but over 1400 ticks is still a long time.

[Yaz]

A winner hasn’t been decided but the odds favour one side. Admins can’t just interfere and mess with the chances of one side winning by changing the rules because the other side wants more time to win. Of course extending the time limit doesn’t automatically mean HINI will win, but simply messing with each side’s chances of winning is unacceptable bias Moe… like its not just something that you can say oh well tough luck other people want the era to be epic. And this is only one issue.

[sirskipwith]

A bunch of people have asked me to weigh in, not sure why really but here it goes.

It was foolish of the admins to ever put the ending of this era in a poll decided by players. From my time leading events I quickly learned that the Players dont know what they want and, giving them what they say they want always turns out bad. Most of the people who voted probably thought that having the highscore at 4k ticks was something they could more easily visualize themselves doing compared to the idea of “beating everyone on the map”.

CE should always be open ended because that is part of what makes it different. The idea that you can take all the time you need to make war allows for more complete kills, while also allowing those who refuse to quit more opportunity to fight their way to the top.

The problem with the tick limit is that it forces peoples hand. Normally this is great, we dont want all the eras to take FOREVER and winners need to be decided… but in a case like what we have now, the tick limit is more likely to encourage Hini to battlehug with Asia because they have to worry so much about TIME.

Worst of all, this change seems to discourage fighting. When the scores get locked in, how much of it was bought vs how much was earned? What players will get spoils with almost no stats?

I do understand everyone who says rules are rules though. The mistake was ever making this era this way to begin with… so there is no fixing it now without Admins losing even more faith…

Im here to play regardless and will play the era out regardless.

Cheers,

Skip

[Yaz]

The era having no tick limit was never an option Skip, the admins clearly said the era has to have a time limit because of BD2. The vote that took place was for what tick limit was preferred by everyone, 2000, 2500, 3000 or 4000 I think. So the admins didn’t really make a mistake it was just how things had to be. Everyone voted for 4000 because it was the highest tick limit.

[Malicewolf]

@Moe

Sure, it wouldn’t be fair to the team 20 points ahead if you suddenly added 5 more minutes to the clock, but what if it was the final basketball game being played? Also, what if it was being asked before that team ever got that 20 point lead, because there is still over 1/4 of the era remaining.

That’s the thing though. Your not asking the admins for a triple buzzer win. YOU as the community have the opportunity to make that happen by PLAYING. The triper buzzer win in basketball ISN’T determined by the RULES OF THE MATCH, BUT THE PLAYERS PLAYING. The EXACT thing you are asking at this point is for us to add that last 5 minutes cause you see a team 20 pts ahead and you know the 30 seconds won’t catch you up.

@Moe

If anything I would argue an admin who can’t change based on the circumstances was more unreliable.

The thing is, you’re not asking us to “adapt” to the scenario. For starters, I do NOT see 100% of folks saying, I want unlimited ticks. What you’re asking is the admin’s to extend an era so the current winner can be taken down without a doubt (at the moment, there are doubts on whether or not ya’ll think you can do it with the limitations).

Yes, you are right, if there was a game breaking bug, we’d adapt and make a rule change as necessary. This is NOT that scenario though. The rules were MADE. The BASIC guidelines for what you need to do to win the era was made. This is more like the NBA finals and 1 team is down 20 points and asking for the 5 minute extension at halftime.

[SGuderian]

@sirskipwith

It was foolish of the admins to ever put the ending of this era in a poll decided by players. From my time leading events I quickly learned that the Players dont know what they want and, giving them what they say they want always turns out bad.

Problem is then people would be unhappy with the tick limit imposed by the admins, and in the end nobody is happy. Someone will always complain about something.

[sirskipwith]

I don’t think even the launch of BD2 is a worthy reason to make the CE timed. ESPECIALLY since the medals are going to carry over… Do we really want the first champions of BD2 to not have earned it?

Even if it managed to drag on SO long that BD 2 is actually running, the worst case scenario is some top players letting noobs rule an era before we come crash the party

An improper finish to BD 1 is the worst way to start BD 2… imo

[Yaz]

I respect your opinion, and of course I agree that I wouldn’t like the winners to be decided by camping themselves and sitting. But the management made a decision based on their plans and what they thought was appropriate, so like you said the tick limit should have been removed before the era started. But right now there is no way that a team playing by the rules should have their strategy completely ruined half way through the era by a rule change.

It sucks for some yeah but it’s part of the game and they are playing it how they want to. If people don’t like it then they shouldn’t be here trying to change the rules in an unfair way, they should be doing what they can in the game to prevent those people from winning. And I think every coalition has considered the tick limit and the win heading in NAs direction and yet decided to proceed like this anyway. So it is their decision that ultimately gives NA the win in my opinion.

[Moe]

@Malicewolf

YOU as the community have the opportunity to make that happen by PLAYING. The triper buzzer win in basketball ISN’T determined by the RULES OF THE MATCH, BUT THE PLAYERS PLAYING.

The rules of the FINAL match of the LAST series which is a key point you seem to have glossed over.

@Malicewolf

The EXACT thing you are asking at this point is for us to add that last 5 minutes cause you see a team 20 pts ahead and you know the 30 seconds won’t catch you up.

Hard disagree because I don’t see a team that far ahead right now and there is much more than 30 seconds, but once again, this why I think community input is important. If an extension were possible, then admins shouldn’t make it because THEY think it would benefit or disadvantage a side.

@Malicewolf

The thing is, you’re not asking us to “adapt” to the scenario.

Yes, that is exactly what I’m doing. This is the last Championship Era as far as I’m aware which is a key point in why I think changing the rules should be allowed.

@Malicewolf

What you’re asking is the admin’s to extend an era so the current winner can be taken down without a doubt (at the moment, there are doubts on whether or not ya’ll think you can do it with the limitations).

Please stop making assumptions like this. I am not speaking as member of HINI coalition or SHIP or any team. I am trying to make my argument as a player who has spent too long playing this game and doesn’t wish to see it’s final big era end in what I would consider a disappointing way. If you can’t accept that as the truth, then I have nothing more to say to you.

As for a “current winner”, that isn’t for you to decide being an admin, hence the community vote.

@Malicewolf

For starters, I do NOT see 100% of folks saying, I want unlimited ticks.

I don’t either and nowhere have I suggested such, in fact I’m against unlimited ticks myself which is why I keep saying extension.

@Malicewolf

The rules were MADE. The BASIC guidelines for what you need to do to win the era was made. This is more like the NBA finals and 1 team is down 20 points and asking for the 5 minute extension at halftime.

The rules were made based on a poll voted by the community, a poll in which the highest tick option available was voted with a majority, so I don’t understand why the same can’t be done again.

To be clear, I am trying to argue that a tick extension be seriously considered and not thrown away as forum complaining. My personal vote would be for an extension, which is a separate argument.

I would consider a poll made by a current admin of CE, win or lose, or if management were to come out and say it conflicted with their business roadmap or something as an extension being impossible.

Also, can we please move away from the basketball analogy. Trying to compare the nuance of BD with basketball is a pain.

[Angelwings]

I don’t understand what part of no you don’t understand. You are harassing the admins, because you were told no.

The rules were made and therefore the rules will stand.

[Spinny]

I do think “harassing the admins” and “having a discussion” are completely different things. If I remember correctly, this is a community oriented game, Malice chose to respond to the community, and the community has the ability to respond to Malice.

This is a forum, dedicated to the topic of an extension of CE. This topic is very much involving the admins, it would be bizarre to not talk to them.

Telling the community, they are “harassing the admins” in a discussion isn’t really healthy for the community and undermines the concept of transparency between players and administration.

It’s a forum, let the discussion happen.

[Mewziqal]

So tell me if I’m wrong about any of this since I wasn’t around BD at the time all the voting happened. But this is the series of events I have heard of and researched so far.

1: CE was announced and a tick poll was created. The winner of this poll was 4000 ticks (61% of 66). The post starts off with Alex saying

@Alexander

By popular demand, we’ve decided to hold a Tick Limit vote, as previously announced, for CE3.

2: Milan made a poll about whether to have a tick limit or not like a day after the official one and the winner was no tick limit with 73% (of 15) of the vote. Now I’m curious to see where the “popular demand” for a tick limit is.

3: Now that the era has been underway for quite some time, due to the staff overruling the community’s wishes, there is unrest in the community because the era is likely going to end in literally the worst and most boring way possible. This was predicted by many that wanted no tick limit by the way. We want the era to actually end in a fun and exciting way and are encouraging you to actually change the rules to what a majority of the community wanted anyway.

4: Suddenly now it requires 100% of the community to agree to this? It took less than a third of the community to let you guys claim “popular demand” before the era started.

If there is actually a link that supports the “popular demand” comment that Alex made please show me. I wasn’t able to find it while I was looking through the forums and typing up this post.

There is even a comment on the poll that suggests the popular opinions were either no tick limit or 2.5k ticks. If that is true, and then 61% chose 4K ticks, I’d say that’s even more evidence that no tick limit would’ve likely been the “popular demand”

I’m going to go off Josh’s NBA analogy. This is the equivalent of having a tie game at the end of regulation in game 7 of the Finals and giving the championship to the team that had an individual player with the most points scored. Rather than going into overtime until a team comes out on top.

[Kenny]

I’m not playing the era anymore but here’s my 2 cents:

I’m absolutely opposed to an extension for many reasons, but I don’t think that flaming those who want one is necessarily a correct response to have.

I have definitely been on the opposite end of an era extension. E1 A1 NC we were turtling AA and managed to scare Kane with very old agents that forced him to slow his assault on our hive. We had also combined relics and score with the remnants of Redwurm’s alliance and I think it was a coinflip for rank 1 alliance at the time. (I can’t remember honestly.)

Anyways, Kane lobbied for an extension on the era so that the war could be finished out, we were opposed to it since we merged the alliance in order to compete vs Kane on score not on skill. Kane got his way, our alliance could no longer fight back on him since the guys we had weren’t good at the game… so we lost out. It killed a lot of our motivation for the game and I think most of the players involved on my side didn’t play for awhile after. I’ve also been on the side to where I needed an era extension in order to win the game and didn’t get it.

E4 A2 of OC when I was playing in BYZ we survived an onslaught from NA coalition in Turkey, came back and tried to invade NA before they could reorganize their alliances… they managed to do it and took rank 1 off of score. That’s how BD is sometimes though. Sometimes the better alliance doesn’t win because the rules are the way the rules are. We all accepted the rules prior to placing on the server and competing for it. Tick limit should be upheld. I don’t want people to feel the pain I felt in E1 A1 NC, and I want people to accept the pain like I did in E4 A2 OC.

I understand why people would feel pressured to asking for a tick limit change due to game conditions, but I don’t think there was any actual malicious intent out of those asking for it. I think that any alliance with a surviving army from this point on still has a legitimate shot at winning the era. In CE2 by this time we were at the EXACT same scenario with KCA coalition. We were at their colonies and at some weird point diplomatically to where no one knew what would happen, and I personally set off the powder keg to the next stage of the era. A lot happened, and things quickly changed.

You must not look at the era statically. Camp walls fail, and they fail very abruptly. There has never been a camp wall in the history of this game that ACTUALLY got methodically slow pushed through and through. No, that’s not how this game works. BD is very morale-based. Once people start realizing that their defensive wall is NOT working mistakes happen all over the place.

Think back to the Australia invasion earlier in this game. YNV had a MASSIVE campwall and everyone thought on both sides that it could be maintained for days. That campwall fell in 8 hrs due to a slip of a camp clearing and allowing an op spot. Think back to where HINI and SA hit AA’s campwall and were slow pushing then suddenly AA accounts got banned and a colony joining Pepe + some camps clearing due to people not paying attention broke through a massive chunk of that AA campwall.

Everything happens DYNAMICALLY. You cannot analyze a situation with a static perspective because you will be wrong. Once you pull your head out of the static mindset you will find true stratagems.

It’s very silly for people to feel pressured into wanting a tick limit based on game conditions, and given the ruleset that we all planted on the server and agreed to by compliance, suck it up buttercup and play some Battle Dawn.

[manuharsh]

I love how you are saying majority of the community by citing a poll that was taken by 15 people lol, ever wondered why so few took that? Maybe most of us were fine with a tick limit??

And what about people who joined the era because there is a time limit? Should we just throw them under the bus.

Btw who says the era is boring? Its quite fun, If you look at the forum we get many good brs every now and then, now if you expect people to mindlessly crash their armies into unreasonable battle just so we could have big brs, that wont happen.

[Mewziqal]

Fair, I guess. But 66 people is also not the entire community. But even if it is 40 of them wanted 4K. who knows what percentage of them would’ve voted for no limit if it was even an option.

Also Milan’s poll was cut short, I believe. So probably not all 66 people would’ve been able to vote before he ended it. 73% is still a significant number. Especially on roughly 20% of the community based on the tick limit poll.

Also this has easily been one of the least fun eras I have ever played.

[Gaurav]

The popular demand was in terms of wanting a tick limit poll and not just having the company pick a tick limit themselves. Unlimited ticks was never an option as both the owner and ceo mentioned.

[Mewziqal]

Popular demand was having a tick limit
poll that didn’t even contain the popular demand option because the staff and ceo decided to ignore the community. Yes all that was stated in my post, G